Posted in: Musicouching by Sher D Fly on January 8, 2008 | 96 Comments
In most cultures, nursery rhymes feature children’s verses and songs that are verbally passed down from one generation to another. But how many of us realize that many of the most popular English nursery rhymes for our kids are often extremely violent in nature, filled with tales of death and suffering, and often contain quite disturbing and tragic endings?
“Jack and Jill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water.
Jack fell down
And broke his crown
And Jill came tumbling after”
I believe you are familiar with this one. In this rhyme, Jack fell down and “broke his crown” (which basically means severely injured his head – I suppose this can possibly be deadly) after he and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water. Soon afterwards, he goes home only to endure terrible pain when he “went to bed and bound his head with vinegar and brown paper”. Oh, it doesn’t stop there. Jill gave an evil grin when she saw Jack’s silly paper plaster. Unfortunately, their mother saw this smirk and got really angry and whipped her quite soundly for the whole incident.
“Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king’s horses and all the king’s men
Couldn’t put Humpty together again!”
Humpty Dumpty is another famous nursery rhyme that unfortunately ends in tragedy. Humpty Dumpty (a curious egg-like character) falls down from the wall that he had been sitting on. But no one, including the king’s men could fix the unfortunate broken Humpty Dumpty – whom of course dies in the freak accident.
“Rock a bye baby on the tree top,
When the wind blows the cradle will rock,
When the bough breaks the cradle will fall,
And down will come baby, cradle and all.“
This lullaby hints at quite possibly a very tragic ending. The baby is placed in a cradle, on top of the tree (for apparently no reason). The wind blows rather strongly, and the branch of the tree will seemingly eventually break so that the cradle (and the innocent baby inside it) will fall probably crash helplessly down on the ground. Don’t ask me what would happen next. I personally feel that the lullabies we sing to our kids shouldn’t have these types of nightmarish endings.
“There was an old woman who lived in a shoe.
She had so many children, she didn’t know what to do.
She gave them some broth,Without any bread,
Whipped them all soundly, and sent them to bed.”
This old woman actually lives in a big shoe with her “oh so many” children. She doesn’t really even know what to do with them. It seems that she’s poor, stressed out and her children are pretty neglected. She doesn’t even have any bread to go with the broth she made to feed her children. In any case, after she fed them, she beat them all thoroughly and put them to bed. She seems to be quite far from the ideal mother as well as poor, and abusive. What a mom…
“Goosey goosey gander where shall I wander,
Upstairs, downstairs and in my lady’s chamber
There I met an old man who wouldn’t say his prayers,
I took him by the left leg and threw him down the stairs.”
This nursery rhyme is another that is quite violent in nature. Basically it is about this kid who meets an old man who wouldn’t say his prayers. The kid decides to take matters into his own hands and takes this old man’s left leg and throws him down the stairs as a punishment. Does this kid really want to kill the old man or what?
“Peter Peter pumpkin eater,
Had a wife and couldn’t keep her!
He put her in a pumpkin shell,
And there he kept her very well!”
This is about a man named Peter who loved to eat pumpkin. He had a wife but he couldn’t keep her for some reason – probably neglected her. So what does he do? He stuffs her into a pumpkin shell and keeps her permanently in there. I don’t know whether his wife would still be alive after an incident like this but realize that this pumpkin must be a pretty massively giant sized pumpkin. Okay, so he probably forget about the first wife. Soon after that, Peter gets married to another lady whom he didn’t love at first. Peter who was also illiterate (a real find as far as husband material goes) eventually learns to read and finally starts to love his wife – from the second marriage.
“Ladybug ladybug fly away home,
Your house in on fire and your children are gone,
All except one and that’s little Ann,
For she crept under the frying pan.”
This ladybird was told to fly home after being informed that her house was on fire. Sadly, all her children died in the fire, except for one, named Little Ann. Unaware of the danger surrounding her, Little Ann actually crept under the warming pan. Unfortunately, we don’t really know what really happened next. Although it is quite a disturbing nursery rhyme, we somehow hope that Little Ann survives in the end.
“Oh my darling, oh my darling,
My darling Clementine,
You are lost for me forever,
Dreadful sorry, Clementine.
Drove she ducklings to the water
Ev’ry morning just at nine,
Hit her foot against a splinter,
Fell into the foaming brine.
Ruby lips above the water,
Blowing bubbles soft and fine,
But alas, I was no swimmer,
Neither was my Clementine.
In a churchyard near the canyon,
Where the myrtle doth entwine,
There grow rosies and some posies,
Fertilized by Clementine.”
This is a tragic love story, with a sad ending. A boy falls madly in love with a miner’s daughter named Clementine. One day while playing near the seaside, Clementine falls down and gets swept away by the current. Her lover the boy wants to save her but he doesn’t actually know how to swim himself. In the end, Clementine drowns and is buried.
“Lucy Locket lost her pocket,
Kitty Fisher found it;
But ne’er a penny was there in’t
Except the binding round it.”
In this rhyme, Lucy Locket loses her pocket, i.e. pouch. Her close friend, Kitty Fisher actually finds it later, but sadly, all of the money in the pouch is unfortunately gone. The only thing left inside is the ribbon around the pocket. Truly a very sad thing for a poor little girl.
Georgie Porgie, puddin’ and pie,
Kissed the girls and made them cry.
When the boys came out to play,
Georgie Porgie ran away.
Georgie Porgie was a very sad, anti-social boy. He tries to make friends with the girls by kissing them, but that only makes them cry. However, when the boys finally come out to play, Georgie Porgie decides to make his exit – and runs away. History: This rhyme actually refers to the amorous and amoral Prince Regent who became George IV during Regency times in England
Anne Lyken-Garner January 8th, 2008 at 4:46 am
I love this. You’ve actually beat me to this, I was thinking of doing this too!
Good job.
Sher January 8th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Sorry Anne. Thanx for your support.
rhymer January 8th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Never knew the whole story behind these rhymes but I knew them now.
Very depressing if only the children knew what they were really singing about. Good one.
Rico January 9th, 2008 at 12:52 am
I wonder why our older generation wanna instill this sorta thing to tgeir children or was it done unintentionally?
Richard Sakai January 10th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
they’re all analogies and metaphors for historic events or social commentary in older times where criticism of society, religion, royalty was punishable by strict penalties or even death.
Ruby Hawk January 10th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
The nursery rythmns are horrible for children but mine loved them and so did my grandchildren. I think they just hear the rythmn.
Liane Schmidt January 10th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Wow…what an incredible article…and look at children’s nursery rhymes. With kid’s centered work like this…who needs censorship? Wow.
Best wishes.
Sincerely,
-Liane Schmidt.
Excluding dt January 11th, 2008 at 2:31 am
Never look at nursery rhymes from this perpective. Wow indeed
Beatrice Adams January 11th, 2008 at 6:24 am
Very interesting, indeed! How about “Ring around the rosies” where they sneeze and end up dead?
louie jerome January 11th, 2008 at 7:21 am
An interesting angle! Many English nursery rhymes have their origins in English history, like Humpty Dumpty aka Cardinal Wolsey, and Jack and Jill (originally Gill) relating to old measures of liquid: 2 jacks= 1 gill, etc
jEFf January 14th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
You forgot ‘Ring around the Rosie’ That’s a morbid one about the plague.
quiet voice January 14th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Hi, I never thought about the content of the rhymes, until my sister and I taked about them. Like Humpty Dumpty, they are troublesome to say the least, learned something while reading the comment section as well. Great job on puting the whole thing together, lots of work, but it appears you enjoyed it.
J.R.D. January 15th, 2008 at 3:28 am
call me my sense of humor mourbid, but I still like the nursery rhymes even if they are tragic and warped, great article though
sdave January 15th, 2008 at 3:44 am
In South Africa there is an old Afrikaans nursery rhymes that deals with abortion. It goes:
“Siembamba mama se kindjie,Siembamba mama se kindjie, draai sy nek om gooi hom in die sloot, trap op sy kop dan weet jy hy is dood”. Translated:
“Siembamba mommy´s child,Siembamba mommy´s child, twist his neck and through him in the ditch, step on his head and you know he is dead”.
Quite horrible actually but said and sang to the cutest of melodies
Ammar January 15th, 2008 at 5:33 am
i love this article and it’s soooo informative..such a brilliant idea you’ve got here.
Anonymous January 15th, 2008 at 7:47 am
Very good! However, I would have included the ‘RING AROUND THE ROSIES’ / ‘RING A RING O’ ROSES’ one, which refers to the 1665 Great Plague of London.
Ring a-ring o’ roses,
A pocketful of posies.
a-tishoo!, a-tishoo!. (sickness)
We all fall down. (death)
Hey sdave! I’m an Afrikaner living in UK now. I remember that Siembamba one. Something is seriously weird about these nursery rhymes…
ben January 15th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Don’t forget the last verse of Clementine, for added moral ambiguity:
How I miss her,
How I miss her,
How I miss my Clementine,
So I kissed her little sister,
and forgot my Clementine.
a parent January 15th, 2008 at 11:58 am
You’re surprised? Wait til you discover fairy tales.
Kris Hughes January 15th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Hmmm this is pretty interesting. A form of social conditioning maybe.
Monkey January 15th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Well, Clementine seems a reasonable enough lesson for the most part – “Learn to swim, kids, or your life may end in tragedy!”. Silly numbers of people STILL drown every year, despite the fact any able-bodied human child can learn to swim at least as easily as learning to walk given the opportunity.
matt January 15th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Georgie Porgie, puddin’ and pie,
Kissed the girls and made them cry.
When the boys came out to play,
He kissed them too, cos he’s funny that way.
frumpiefox January 15th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Great list!
I have one nit to pick: “My Darling Clemintine,” while freakishly morbid, isn’t actually a nursery rhyme, but a flok ballad (the two types are very closely related, of course.)
How about “Ding Dong Dell,” where the kid throws a cat in the well, attempting to not only end a poor animal’s life, but to also poison the water supply? This was the one that offended me most as a kid.
Or “Solomon Grundy:”
Solomon Grundy,
Born on Monday,
Christened on Tuesday,
Married on Wednesday,
Took ill on Thursday,
Worse on Friday,
Died on Saturday,
Buried on Sunday:
This is the end
Of Solomon Grundy.
Where to even start with this one!
frumpiefox January 15th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Sorry, *folk ballad
Joel January 15th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
A bit conflicted some of the meanings you put are different to other ones i’ve heard.
Jack Rodnessey January 15th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Very informative article.
Ryu Kiris January 15th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Damn, all the good ideas are taken. ^^’ I wish I had found triond sooner.
kiji January 15th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
very good tho there are more versions of clementine – in which the boy forgets clementine when he kisses her little sister!
Craig January 15th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Actually, I’ve always wondered why, when Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall, they started by getting the King’s Horses to try and put him together again? I probably would have started with the King’s men instead … horses would have had a very difficult time of it with their hoofs …
mathew January 15th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
this is a really gud article….well thought
mindy January 15th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
I LOVED this list! I’d like to add the French Alouette about plucking a birds head. “Alouette gentille Alouette”….
Profkampf January 15th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
I had heard that Rock a bye baby was written and meant to be about a bastard son of a royal family
Rock a bye baby on the tree top – (the baby is at the top of a family tree)
when the wind blows the cradle will rock – (when people start talking about the baby, its going to cause a commotion)
when the bough breaks, the cradle will fall – (when its learned that the baby is NOT of royal blood, he will be disinherited)
and down will come cradle, baby and all – (it will be the end of the monarchy)
action0099 January 15th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
This was great. I really enjoyed reading your article!
Jim January 16th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Not only the nursery rhymes but in the original Italian version of Sleeping Beauty the prince finds her and she wakes months later to find herself about to deliver a baby.
Ring a round the rosie – the black plague
London Bridge – the collapse of the original bridge due to overcrowded housing on it.
Monyet Miskin January 16th, 2008 at 1:28 am
And of course there’s no need to explain what ‘goosey gander’ is.
George VI January 16th, 2008 at 5:10 am
Like many blogs say, if you don’t like it move on. So move on (I am).
NoLikey January 16th, 2008 at 8:40 am
I like to sing to my daughters so I changed the words of some songs. for instance:
Rock a bye baby,In the treetop
When the wind blows, The cradle will rock
Whe-en it rocks, will sleep
And dream of all sorts of wonderful things
Feel free to use it
NoLikey January 16th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Bah, it lost part of it, here we go:
Rock a bye baby, in the treetop
When the wind blows the cradle will rock
Whe-en it rocks -baby name here- will sleep
And dream of all sorts of wonderful things
Surprised January 16th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
This hasn’t been pointed out yet, but Humpty Dumpty has nothing to do with eggs.
It’s the story of a massive English cannon, mounted on a wall. The cannon gets knocked off the wall and fractures, and they try to use teams of horses to drag all the pieces back together, but it’s all bolloxed.
The problem solver January 16th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
I liked the article but you forgot quite possibly the most depressing kids song. Ring around the rosie. This song is a song about death and pockets full of posey. Posey were little flowers people put over ther nose to protect from the smell of dead folks
YPatton January 17th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
This is a great article. It made me laugh. I know people think it’s offensive, but it’s part of history. I enjoy all the morbid nursery rhymes and fairytales. If you read the original Brothers Grimm or Hans Christian Anderson Fairytales you will see some very morbid things there like when Cinderella’s step sisters try on the shoe and one cuts off her toe and the other cuts off her heel to make it fit then they both get their eyes pecked out by crows at the end. It’s fitting.
Also for Craig’s comment about Humpty Dumpty. The reason why it’s the kings horses is because it’s a reference to the game of Chess where horses are used as knights. All the kings horses mean all the kings knights. all the kings men are his soldiers and officials. they couldn’t put humpty (Cardinal Wosley) back together again after he was executed.
Koyin January 19th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Wow, Good article Sher D Fly, I guess you never really think of these things.
Koyin
Erica Barton January 19th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
I thought this was incredibly funny…and yet I can also see WHY these nursery rhymes were chosen by their originators. I too have found myself singing morbidly creepy songs to my screaming little boy as he fights sleep. Nothing soothes him so much as the cooing gyrations that issue from my throat, and nothing soothes my nerves more then to threaten bodily harm should he fail to give into the “Sandman.” It’s amazing how creative you can become when desperate…and that’s what a lot of these nursery rhymes sound like to me…desperate parents trying to soothe their child to sleep.
Spyros February 1st, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Cassidy is a silly nanny.
Jimbo February 5th, 2008 at 11:22 am
A very interesting article!
Mindy mentioned “Alouette” which we all sang in school, phonetically in French, never knowing what the words meant. I’ve heard that it is about chicken plucking. (”Jaunte plume array”… plume=feathers) I wish I could find the English translation.
The line in “Clementine”… “her shoes were number nine” hints at clumbsiness so it’s no surprise she tripped… and that the balladeer had designs on Clementine’s sister all along. Ha!
“Humpty Dumpty”… alluding to a Cardinal? A big cannon? Maybe English readers might set the record straight on that one.
Yes, as mentioned, I think these are remembered and loved for their catchy tunes rather than what the words are saying. Non-sensical American tunes like “Oh, Suzanna!” and “Camptown Races” are other examples of that.
Renae February 6th, 2008 at 1:28 am
I never thought about this so true.
goulash February 6th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
i supposed ths not only happen in the english society but asians too…our nursery rhymes are not “innocent” either.
emem February 29th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
i think it is pretty obivious the person who made this doesnt know the real stories behind them…if she did she would have “Pocket Full of Posies” that is the worst out of all ten of these who ever made this doesnt know what they are talking about
emem February 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Here are some real ones and what they really mean.. to the people who really want to learn about history and the real stories about nursery ryhmes
susan March 13th, 2008 at 5:34 am
There is so much you left out of this and many of your explanations are wrong. it was a half hearted shallow attempt and you missed the true meanings completely. For example Goosey Goosey Gander originated from the time of Oliver Cromwell. He was trying to abolish Catholicism and a common toture for those who refused to “Say [their] prayers”, meaning prodestant prayers, We’re flung down stone steps and then dragged up again by a rope tied around their left leg. This process was repeated until the victim renounced their religion.
If you are going to do it at all, at least do it properly.
Craig March 24th, 2008 at 2:11 am
Ring Around the Rosie
“ring around the rosie,
pocket full of posies
ashes, ashes,
we all fall down”
This is about the exciting….Bubonic Plague (very childlike!!)
ring around the rosie = refers to fever
pocket full of posies = refers to swollen lymph nodes around your groin
ashes, ashes = your skin turns ashen color
we all fall down = death
that is a wonderful nursery rhyme to tell our children!!
BrieDanielle May 30th, 2008 at 1:44 am
I agree that this list was incomplete and not altogether accurate, but OH it made me and my 13 year old Goddaughter laugh! Thanks!
Beyond Birthday June 16th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
That’s really morbid,but it’s not all that accurate,and you may have made some of it up.
Not that I’m saying you did.
Shahidah from Bermuda June 17th, 2008 at 9:11 am
What about Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water,
Jack fell down and broke his crown (head) and Jill came tumbling after.
It was a big hill too!!!
Shahidah June 17th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Oh! Sorry, I didn’t see Jack and Jill at the top of the list.
elaine June 25th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
great article, good job
samantha July 4th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
you missed one.
ring around the rosie pocket full of posies ashes ashes we all fall down.
witch is about people dieing…
people would get red dots on their arms and a ring around them and the middle dot was called a rosie. and then the cure of it was a posie. and when they died.. they burnded them, wich makes ashes ofcaorse. and they all fell down as in dieing. but the rest were good.
Callum July 17th, 2008 at 6:42 am
Hmm…
I think the reason these rhymes (and fairy-tales) can be so “disturbing” to us nowadays is that childhood was a lot shorter (practically non-existant) back when these songs were first thought up. And I suppose they are a lot more “realistic”. Children weren’t as sheltered from stuff (like death) as they are today. A lot of the poorer ones had to start working when they were around 8, often in horrible places like coal mines! Stuff like poverty, violence and beatings, (like in ‘The Old Lady Who Lived In A Shoe’), diseases and death (like ‘Ring-A-Ring-A-Rosie’) were much more commonplace and accepted.
Also I think you forget kids (even today) aren’t often quite as innocent as their parents think. I’ve heard many a child quote the odd childhood rhyme “Bang, Bang, You’re Dead! Fifty Bullets In Your Head” Somehow I doubt their parents taught them that. It’s just one of those things that kids seem to make up and pass on to each other. Most things kids see these days on TV, at the movies, or even on the news, are a lot worse than these stories!
—-
Just as a side note, I also think it’s interesting that we all KNOW Humpty Dumpty is an egg, even though it doesn’t say in the rhyme at all. That’s always struck me as strange =)
Natalia August 24th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
You know, Humpty Dumpty (god knows why in the nursery rhyme it’s an egg) is (was) a cannon in some war…..I can’t remember which one. French Reveloution??? Well I’m still a kid so whatever. Anyways! The cannon was mounted on a wall and when the wall got shot. ” Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.” Yeah. Then the King’s men (on horses) tried and failed to “put humpty together again.” lol. That’s what I wanted to add. I also wanted to add the Ring around the rosies thing but it looks like Samantha already covered what I was gonna say.
Natalia August 24th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
OMG =0 I was looking through one of my old nursery rhyme books and I found this one.
” Great A, little a,
Bouncing B!
The cat’s in the cupbard,
And can’t see me.”
I looked at the picture and found the meaning.
The little girl locked her cat in the cupboard to play with alphabet blocks. =0 Gave me the shivers when I thought what happened to the cat later. I’ll find some more. Hold on. I’ll post in a few minutes.
Natalia August 24th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
ok whoah. I can post this with NO explanation.
” There was a man in out town.,
And he was wonderous wise.
He jumped into a bramble bush,
And scratched out both his
eyes;
But when he saw his eyes were out,
With all his might and main,
He jumped into another bush,
And scrathed em’ in again.”
Sooo this is supposed to teach little kids not to scrath their eyes out?????
Natalia August 24th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Here are a whole bunch I found
” There was a little man and he had a little gun. And his bullets were made of lead lead lead; He went to the brook, and he saw a little duck, and he shot it right through the head head head. He carried it home to his old wife Joan, And bade her a fire to make make make. To roast the little duck he had shot in the brook, And he’d go fetch the drake drake drake. The drake was a-swimming with his curly tail; The little man made his mark mark mark. He let off his gun but he fired too soon, And the srake flew away with a quack quack quack.”
This one shocked me
” Cry, baby, cry,
Put your finger in your eye,
And tell your mother it wasn’t I. “
Poor little abused baby
The last verse of Baa Baa black Sheep
” One for my master,
One for my dame,
But none for the little boy
Who cries down the lane.”
Sing a song of Sixpence is long so I’ll put in the first and last verses
” Sing a song of sixpence, A pocket full of rye; Four-and-twenty blackbirds
Baked in a pie!”
” The maid was in the garden, hanging out the clothes; When down came a blackbird Andb snapped off her nose.”
That’s all I have time for. You know? I should make a blog about this on my website…..I will!!! lol bye!
Elizabeth September 12th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
“Ring around the rosie pockets full of posie Ashes, Ashes we all fal down” Means… Ring around the roseis is a disease, pockests full of posie means that when people die they put flowers in their pocket, Ashes,Ahses means when they die the burn them to ashes, and We all fall down means they are dead!
Sara September 27th, 2008 at 4:10 am
mind opening article…i really do enjoy reading it. well done!
funky monky September 28th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
dont u ppl realize that these nursery rhymes r pure evil?! u ppl dont know that evil is at work and is going to destroy us all! think about it. these nursery rhymes, violence around the world, etc. whats next. idk whats going on but what ever is going on, we need to act.
Joshua Colasacco October 6th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
you nimrod the humpy dumpy was about a british cannon that was made to destroy ships from far away and during a war the cannon was hit and landed on the ground and broke into pieces hint “all the KINGS horses and all the KINGS men couldnt put Humpy together again”
Rufus the Herring November 4th, 2008 at 10:10 am
I’m sorry to point out the obvious but what you are doing is pointing out the bloody obvious. I really don’t get the point of this. eg when Jack “breaks his crown” you say he’s injured his head. WTF is the point of saying that yourself: the rhyme had said it already.
I like these rhymes: they teach children that life sometimes sucks and sometimes things are a bit unpleasant and the sooner you learn about it, the better able you are to deal with it as you grow up and when you are grown up.
Jennifer November 7th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
WHy dont you fractured it? Like….
Humpty dumpty had a great fall
And landed straight on his head
So the farm family had a great picnic
WIth yummy scramble egg
What do you think
But i think this a great one
jane November 7th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
I think this article rocks
toni November 9th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
i’m toni and i’m doing a school speech on violent nursery rhymes and i think that is the best most hilarious thing ever!!!:)
Annie. November 26th, 2008 at 8:22 am
I remember my brother telling me these funny variations…
Jack and Gill went up the hill
To have some hanky panky
Silly Gill forgot her pill
And now there’s little Frankie..
Georgie Porgie Puddin’ and Pie,
Kissed the girls and made them cry
When the boys came out to play..
He kissed them too ‘cause he was gay.
Crystal November 26th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Lol these are not the real analogies but i like your version what about ring around the roses
bri December 4th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
wow these r quite morbid…how can kids like these….& ya wat bout ring around the rosies thts all about the bubonic pleage
tjtjdydjd December 10th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
this is a bad thing for peaple to teach their kids
joe January 27th, 2009 at 8:21 am
Pretty shallow analasis – and quite often wrong.
Compared to the graphic violence kids are exposed to on TV I honestly don’t think my kids are damaged by a rhyme they don’t have the capacity to understand in the ways given here anyway.
Go expend your political correct energies on something worthwhile!
Celeste January 27th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Hi, just wanted to say that I appreciated your article. It’s so true that these nursery rhymes and so many of the fairy tales that we teach our kids are horribly morbid. I have always wondered why that is, but I think that some of the theories presented by previous posters are probably close to the truth. (I think Erica Barton is spot on!) And it’s interesting that some posters from other cultures note the same trend in their own experience. I will continue to share the nursery rhymes with my child and hope that he doesn’t decipher their meaning until he is old enough to be amused by it all. In any case, thanks for the laugh!
Vivi (^..^) January 28th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
When you get down to it a lot of things are morbid.But, yeah when you get down to it ‘Ring around the rosie’ means a lot of things and can be interperated in many ways.
RING AROUND THE ROSIE – the redness around sores, rashes from on set of the black death, usually a description of a skin condition caused by the plauge.
POCKETS FULL OF POSIE- swelling lymph nodes in the groin, the flowers carried by the sick to cover the smell, or the flowers put in the pockets of the dead to ward off evil spirits.
ASHES ASHES – the burning of dead bodies, sometimes “ACHOO ACHOO” as if the plauge is in it’s early stages.
WE ALL FALL DOWN- self explanitory, death
hazel January 30th, 2009 at 11:36 am
ring around the roses has nothing to do with the plague, its a popular misconception passed on by primary school teachers, it actually predates all incidences of the plague, that explanation only appeared early last century. It’s thought to be the instruction to a dance, with fall down meaning to curtsy or bow.
Humpty dumpty is not about an egg, it is about a very large cannon that exploded and took the wall under it with it
the maz March 2nd, 2009 at 1:07 pm
i lve looking up nursery rhymes that have to do w/ death… dont ask… i alwayz have and always will…
zyxyellowxyz March 4th, 2009 at 11:31 am
“Rock a bye baby” is one of those nursery rythmes that has a hidden meaning. It is suspected that it is about the rightful king (of England? yeash, I should have paid more attention in history class) is coming back to overthrow the king on the thrown and take his rightful place.
Also, its probably been mentioned before, that Ring a round the Rosie is about the black plague.
Ring a round the Rosie – the ring around the sore
A pocket full of posies – to mask the smell
Ashes, ashes we all fall down – they’re dead
I know snopes says that’s not the case, but all in all they can only go off what has been published. I seem to believe my teacher rather than the internet.
just one sensible person April 15th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
I truely think that you all have to learn some MAJOR history before you bash everything that was passed down for reasons that obvousily you don’t care about!!! Most of the childrens tales and rhymes were passed down so the children would learn the lessons of history. Many did not read and books were very hard to come by and in many cultures banned! So how else would any of you, if you cared, find out about things that happened in the past (before your parents were born!!)?? You are the same type of parents who made such a HUGE deal over a childs story that is and will always be loved by most of the world. If you do not and did not have the insight to see that there are stories written just because having an imagination is a good thing, and others are sang and passed down to pass on history and traditions, I truely feel sorry for you and your children.
hmm April 28th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
my phys teacher told me humpty dumpty had a hidden meaning.
he said it has something to do with virginity and never being able to get it back. carnt remember what he said about the rest of em
s.a. May 3rd, 2009 at 7:18 pm
GREAT LIST!! A relative gave my daughter some old nursary rhyme tapes, the goosy gander line about throwing the old guy down the stairs prompted my search for “nursary rhyme violence” (for a laugh i’m not looking ‘cus it offended etc)
PS All you “HISTORY LESSON” guys need to get a life the OP never debated the origins of the rhymes he’s just poking fun at the violence that would probably never get anywhere near a childrens cottonwool wrapped book now!!
Marie May 12th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
note: Ring around the rosie…not about any type of plague…look it up!
helpmehelpme May 18th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
this is driving me crazy
anyone know where “mama had a baby and its had popped off” dandelion chant came from and what it really means
thanks in advance
Ace it May 23rd, 2009 at 2:27 am
Guys i do agree that it is horrid. but if you think of it… nursery rymes has been created in times that was sad and depressing. whatever their true meaning, these rymes has somewere along the line of its excistence brought actual joy to someone. for example…someone in a concentration camp might sing something like ’simbamba’… the words might be sad and depressing, but to that person it is a way of dealing with his/her ceroundings.it is also a great way of teaching children that life is not just fun and joy but also sometimes hard and sad. in a way it is preparing them for what they might go through later in life.
P.S all us /”HISTORY LESSON”/ are the only ones i think that can really connect this to its true origins. that really understand the value of what it has to teach us in life. these nursery rymes is songs of long ago painful memories. vioces crying out not to be forgotten. ever heard of learn from your mistakes? it teaches us to be careful in our doings in life etc. he teaches us causion but also how to go on if something did go wrong. for eg. to put it in a song to say this is wat happened but see i can still sing. i will make it through. [im doing my phd on nursery rymes and their origins and i must say it is a quit interesting subject. well done to who ever put this together.]
bek June 1st, 2009 at 11:47 pm
Guys, Ring around the Roses pre-dates the bubonic plague by 600 years.
It took on the meaning, certainly, but was never originally about that.
This is quite a fun read. http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp
born in poverty July 10th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
maybe the reason the “old mother in the shoe” beat her children is because broth isnt very filling and and a sound beating would cause crying and then the children would bcome very tired.
marlene S. July 24th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Laughing and Still singing:
No matter what these rhymes really mean..my kids sang these songs, my grandkids sing them, and so will their own offsprings, etc. etc. No one takes them seriously; just like Mickey Mouse…did you ever see a rodent who was less repulsive and more loveable? Or a sillly ghost like Casper who was less frightening?
And what about those “fairy” tales, ie:Hansel and Gretal, Sleeping Beauty, Goldilocks and the Three Bears, and especially Snow White, that trollop living with seven little men? Even by today’s standards society would have a word for her…
Nuf said….
idgas August 4th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
this is rather interesting and each one of ur oppinions is rediculous lol
shimelle August 9th, 2009 at 7:19 am
I happen to be 17 year old looking for research for an english speech. I just want to say that there is no such thing as a child being influanced by “horrible and death oriantated” nursery rhymes. When I was a child I never saw any of these things.(I happen to know every single rhyme mentioned and more). The only problem is that adults like you look to deeply into these type of things. If you really want to protect your child from violence switch off the TV. There is some major violence on that machine and not only that but children laugh out of characters making a mockery out of others. The reason Tv is so dangerous is because your child can see the violence, but witha nursery rhyme your children sees its own image and believe me it won’t be one of violence.
ivy0x0 August 10th, 2009 at 10:42 am
i think that lizzie bordon should have beaten humpty dumpty
Lizzi Bordon had an axe
Gave her mother forty whacks
When she had saw what she had done
She gave her father forty-one
Also “what the blind man saw,” and “the death and burial of poor cock robin”
Those are pretty messed up too…….
keracat October 12th, 2009 at 3:56 am
Actually the Rock-a-bye baby is about the english royal family, I can’t remember exactly who or what but what happened was the king devorced/ killed the queen and got another one and she was expecting. Then the church got a distant relitive to come in and make the King run with his queen and newborn. Basically meaning the baby and the king and queen couldn’t be the rulers anymore. Sorry I couldn’t tell it better. When you know the names and who did what it makes more sense…
The Ponderer October 25th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
What must be understood about these things is that back when these nursery rhymes were first made, whipping your children wasn’t considered an atrocity. Much of the things in these nursery rhymes were sadly common-place during that era. Because they didn’t have the same empathy and compassion for human life as we do now. I’m not saying they were barbarians, but when people die left and right since the day you’re born, you tend to grow calloused to that sort of thing.
If you want something truly macabre, you should look up the original Fairy Tales that were compiled by the Grimm Brothers. Those were positively lovely.
You did a good job a deciphering the rhymes, awesome article!
alice November 1st, 2009 at 7:50 pm
i threw my pumpkins away
Ron November 9th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
A profound personal view on some very disturbing childrens nursey rhymes; THANK YOU.
Tess November 17th, 2009 at 2:56 am
Hi Sher,
You have done a really good job of these, I think many things we read or sing to children is coded but it’s ok because they don’t really figure it out until they are older!
I have heard many different theories about some of the nursery rhymes… for instance i have heard Humpty Dumpty had nothing to do with a random egg, Humpty Dumpty was a massive war cannon sitting on the top of a castle wall which was the main defence mechanism for the British army. While they were not paying attention the opposing army pulled it off the wall causing it to smash and it coudln’t be fixed -by the british army (kings horses and men) because it was so damaged.
There are mant interpretations of everything though, I guess it’s just what assimilates best in ones mind.